We Are Lonely episode four

Episode 4 - finding your passions

Jemma Sbeg
We are Lonely is recorded across a number of Aboriginal lands including Gumbaynggirr Nation and the Eora Nations.
We would like to pay our respects to the Elders and custodians of these lands.
We would also like to pay our respects to the custodians of the land on which you are now listening.

Holly
I’m on my way to the yoga retreat. Um… I’m feeling really nervous.
I made the fatal mistake of stalking the other people that were going; I guess, just to sort of see, if they were people that were my age and that kind of thing and none of them were. They were all a lot older than me, and I think that freaked me out. I think I’m terrified about not connecting with people and feeling really isolated for a weekend. So, anyway… Safe to say, this… yeah, well, yeah, I hope I’m wrong. I hope that I am wrong about this and that it’s a good experience. So, we shall see.

Holly
Isolating myself has been a habit, and being lonely I guess, is also… it's become a habit for me.

Tim
I think loneliness is something I've definitely struggled with.

Deidre Anderson
Everyone feels lonely at some stage in their life.

Tessa Blencowe
When we don't talk about it, when it's left unsaid, that's when it can start to spiral and build up; then turn into something much greater - which can become something more severe.

Ian Hickie
And that has adverse effects on your mental and physical health.

Lisa Mundy
Connection is everything. As humans and as mammals like we require that connection.

Jemma Sbeg
This is We are Lonely, and I’m Jemma Sbeg.

Aleks
I still end up prioritising work over spending time with the people I love or something like this.

Jemma Sbeg
We've connected four people in their 20’s with mentors who are helping them build strategies to connect.

Charity
When I was younger, I had this sense of family and people coming together. It doesn’t happen these days anymore.

Jemma Sbeg
This show is supported by Medibank.
Before we get into things, I want to let you know that Being About Loneliness, this podcast gets personal and vulnerable.
At times we’ll be exploring difficult themes including social anxiety, racism and isolation.
If this raises any issues for you, you can call Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen or go to Reach Out dot Com, which offers dedicated support for young people.
In this episode we’ll catch up with Holly, Tim and Charity.
We just heard Holly getting ready to head into a yoga retreat.
That’s because this episode is all about passions, finding what we love and using that as a space to connect.
Holly had caught up with Tessa earlier to prepare for this step.

Holly
Since doing this I've booked to do a yoga retreat. Not knowing anyone. And it's a small group, it's about, I think,10 to 12 people. And I would really love some skills or like just a few little bits and pieces that you feel might help me in a situation like that because I think it could be relevant to other people as well going into situations where they don't know people and they might struggle with making friends or you know, connecting with other people.

Tessa Blencowe
That's super exciting that you've got that coming up. I'm very excited for you and  well done for putting yourself out there in that way. Because I feel like that in some ways… that can feel like the hardest step (is) is just saying ‘Ok I’m going to do it’.

I think sometimes what we forget when we're going into things like this is that we already, you already going into a group of people that share something with you. You already share a love of Yoga, you already share a willingness to go to something where maybe you don't know other people, um and so you're also sharing this sense of you know, you're doing something that feels important for yourself. Um… so, I think sometimes just knowing that you're already coming in connected in some way, is quite powerful because yeah, we're strangers but you are already sharing a lot. You're building the foundations of a friendship and a relationship that are built off more than just a situation of we went to school together or, you know, I have to be friends with them because I've known them for a long time. And just really practically, you know, like we've got to pursue people. So, if we have enjoyed our time with someone, and we'd like to, you know, see them again that we say that.

Holly
Yeah.

Tessa Blencowe
Say ‘hey, it's been really fun. I would love to hang out again, like can we do the whole…’,
and you can like make a joke through it. You know, can be like, “well, like so funny making friends as adults, isn't it.” but yeah, I'd love to”. You can speak to that. You know, I think that's real. I think we all relate to that. But we do have to we do have to take that step. It does require that of us. You know, these friendships and new friendships and especially as we become adults, they don't just always fall in our laps. We actually have to work at them, but that work is what builds an even better connection with people.

Holly
Yeah. Yeah, no, I… it's a good point like yeah, being able just not make fun of it, but just make light around it, I think. Try not to take it too serious. Like, when I say not take it too seriously. Just yeah, in how I approach following up if there’s someone that I meet, that yeah, I resonate with.

Tessa Blencowe
And just remember that you're all there for a reason. And it wouldn't just be the yoga.

Holly
Yeah, no you're right and yeah, I hadn’t sort of thought about it like that, that they could be there for like yeah, it's not just going to be yoga.

Tessa Blencowe
So many of us are just craving connection. So many of us are. We all want it.

Holly
Yeah. That’s so true.

Tessa Blencowe
So, you get to be that for someone; just like you get to create that for yourself.

Holly
Yeah, that’s a good point.
Yeah, I mean I might need to message you the day before just to reaffirm that I have this…yeah.

Tessa Blencowe
Absolutely do.I think when it comes to passion, there's lots of reasons as to why it's so important to make space for.

It's a funny one, because I think sometimes especially young people can be so caught up in this idea of like, ‘I don't know what I'm passionate about, I don't know what I want to be’ and that can feel isolating, and ‘I've got all this pressure, I need to figure out what my passion is’. And how do you do that? I don't know what I'm passionate about.

It's like that idea of feeling love for something - whether it's love for others or just love in that moment of I’m really enjoying this thing. Uhm, because it does, it sparks joy. It's you know, the best moments sometimes of being alive is when we can make space for the things that just bring us joy, that just make us happy.

It's like seeing the world as a playground and, you know, how can I just experiment with ideas and the things that I'm drawn to? What is something when I notice when I'm scrolling on my phone that I stop and I think oh, I know what that's like? It's leaning into those parts that I guess give us more information about the things that we like and things that we're drawn to. And yeah, it's really important to make space for that because life… we deserve to have those moments in our lives.

Jemma Sbeg
Dr Lisa Mundy is a Developmental Psychologist with the Australian Institute of Family Studies.
She says finding your passions and what sparks joy for you is important at any age, but particularly for us in our 20’s.

Lisa Mundy
Because that's another really important part of this, of this age, like this sort of Age of opportunity, kind of through the 20s is, is really kind of your self-identity and your self-concept as well working out how you fit into the world, you know, beyond just your kind of parent groups or who you happen to go to school with.

So, these years are really important in terms of being able to try out different, you know, different, try out different hats, try out different kinds of roles. So, this is kind of the age you know, the kind of stage of life where, where that's really kind of core business, I guess.

So, think, trying out different hobbies, different activities as a way of meeting other people, connecting, but also establishing like those sort of healthy patterns that you kind of then take, you know, through life with you as well is really important.

Jemma Sbeg
This strategy of finding joy to connect is something Tim’s mentor Sean Szeps started on straight away. 

Sean Szeps
What are the activities or friendship groups or events or parties or clubs that you went to that when you look back you’re like oh that’s when I was my happiest, that’s when I was figuring out who I really was?

Tim
I’m not sure that I would say it was the happiest but I know, definitely influential,was, I had just broken up with one of exe’s and I called my girlfriend crying and I was like I need you to take me shopping we're going to go and buy like a ton of makeup and I want you to teach me how to do makeup so I can do drag.

Sean Szeps
Oh yes!

Tim
Yeah, that was a really therapeutic time for me.
Like... especially that time was really chaotic. I had just dropped out of uni. I had just broken up with my boyfriend so I was like I just want to learn a new skill, I want to do something artistic I want to do something creative, I want to channel all that energy into something just magical, so yeah.

Sean Szeps
So for you like when you’re exploring drag, was any part of that you exploring your own relationship to gender or was it this beautiful just artistic expression for you? I’m going deep.

Tim
Yeah, yeah.
I think by that point in my life, even though I was around 20, I felt like I was very comfortable in my gender. I never felt any dysphoria around that, and especially talking to my trans friends I could see my experiences with gender wasn’t quite aligned with how they felt.

Sean Szeps
I also identify as a man and I’ve done drag in the past. It's like there’s obviously a small part of you that gets to dip into various aspects of gender and just mess with it, right? But sometimes just the expression allows you to unlock parts of you through your own masculinity with no gender aside just self expression. I’m wondering through that process did you find out, did get to be someone different? Did it allow you to be more outgoing? Did it allow you to be less of an introvert? Is that act a way for you to safely explore various parts of your personality?

Tim
A hundred per cent. I feel like it definitely is a mask and when I was a drag queen I felt like a totally different person. Maybe not a totally different person but there is some aspects where you tell me to get on stage without heels, drag makeup and a wig and I wouldn’t do it. But all of a sudden if you put those elements together and I’m in drag I’m fine going up on stage and performing.

Sean Szeps
Oh, I think it makes total sense. Absolutely! Like dress up and play- we beat it out of kids don’t we? It’s totally cool to do it when you’re little and then you get to an age, especially if you’re a boy 7, 8, 9 and all of sudden they’re like don’t dress up, don’t be silly, don’t have fantasies that are too far stretched from who you actually are.
Do you have any connection presently, to the beautiful joy that was drag or is that just been wiped since the pandemic?

Tim
It has been a bit wiped unfortunately, since I moved to Melbourne. I have all my drag gear - I've got a few wigs, got my heels, but no.That's the thing, I really want to - but the anxiety of like, well, who's going to be approachable, you know, who's going to be welcoming? And I think that was one of the scary things about Perth for drag was it was a lot of white drag queens, so when I was able to meet some POC drag queens in Perth, it was like, amazing, you know, like, I'm not the only one.

Sean Szeps
There I am, people like me.

Tim
Yeah, I felt like just this instant connection - I remember one queen and talking to her and like, as soon as she saw me, she's like, Oh, you're one of us you’re POC like, you know, we're friendly here come be a part of it, you know, like, don't be afraid and intimidated by it.
I was able to build a sense of connection and belonging there, just by being present at that event, whereas now in Melbourne I haven't really had the opportunity to be around the drag queens and get a sense of the community and feel like I'm a part of it yet.

Sean Szeps
Okay.

Tim
So, I really should and I think... I should. I just should.

Sean Szeps
What do you think is stopping you?

Tim
I think it just comes back to that... those four walls and like COVID, you get so used to that routine. And like, I'm comfortable in here, like, do I want to go out and watch a drag show and be surrounded by a bunch of other people or do I want to stay at home and play some video games?

Sean Szeps
I totally hear you. I mean honestly, that speaks volumes to me. Because you know in your head that once you get there and you power through the discomfort or maybe once you've gone six or seven times and you start to become a regular and people know you that it will be good then but that does take a lot of effort.

Tim
Yeah.

Sean Szeps
It's a lot of emotional effort. and It's a lot of physical effort.

Tim
100%.

Sean Szeps
And it's easier to not.. BUT… and it's a very big but. As we talk about your time here versus your time there you did light up when we were talking about drag in a way that you haven't necessarily lit up about talking about your time in Melbourne. Is that fair to say?

Tim
Yeah, I think that's fair.

Sean Szeps
I guess the other question I have, does your partner like drag, is that a thing he would go and do?

Tim
Oh yeah.

Sean Szeps
If you said to him, I see a future where that’s a part of my life again and I think on the other side of that is an even happier version than I am today, what would it look like if we went every Thursday for a month,this is just me making something up? Is that something he would come to the table and say let's do it together?

Tim
Yeah, a 100%.

Sean Szeps
Okay, and are there friends here that would do the same, even if it's his friends, like, are there other people that might support that or do you think it's more of a couple thing?

Tim
Nah, like, it’s definitely something like, because I've got my little group of friends here, and I'm always talking to them like, Okay, if I put you in drag, will you come out with me? Will you let me be your drag mom? Like, Yeah, can we, you know, try and create, since I don't have that same community here like I did in Perth, - I was like, well, I've been a bit scared to go out and become part of that community and I was like, let me just make one.

Sean Szeps
I think that's the best I've ever heard!

Tim
Yeah.

Sean Szeps
If we just set a goal that I’m going to go without fail for just one month not more...let's not set goals further than that - let’s, make it achievable. And we are saying ‘I’m going to go every week for four weeks’ and you are going to tell your friends and I’m going to come to one of them, and I am going to come back and we are gonna go.

If we just set goals for ourselves for one month when we're finished with that month, we look back and we have a conversation. What was that like? Did it feel good? Was it did I get into drag? Did I get other people in drag? Did I feel like I was making new connections? Do you think that that would be fun?

Tim
Yeah, yeah.

Sean Szeps
So you're smiling from ear to ear so I’m feeling like this could be good.

Tim
Yeah.

Sean Szeps
I have little chills. So I feel like...sometimes our brains go to these massive goals. I'm going to be a drag queen and everyone's going to know my name and the hurdle from where you are today to that is like too overwhelming. But a micro goal, a manageable goal that doesn't disrupt your life, right? We’re not saying stop making connections online, only do it physical or I’m gonna be a drag queen and I'm gonna sign up and win a competition. We're saying a micro goal. That’s achievable right?

Tim
Yeah.

Sean Szeps
That's achievable. Right?

Tim
Yeah, 100%.

Sean Szeps
100% is great.

Jemma Sbeg
It’s beautiful to hear how Sean is supporting Tim so gently here - not pushing him but encouraging him to take small steps and to own his process.
We did support our mentors and link them with a psychologist to call on if they had any questions.
We want to be playful and to investigate our options.
It’s also important to make sure we’re safe, whilst facing loneliness and putting ourselves out in the world. 
And safety can be both physical, and emotional.
We may need to test ourselves, to push ourselves and even to make ourselves a little uncomfortable.
But we don’t want to get too far and create a situation where we’re overwhelmed.
Tessa can help us define this line.

Tessa Blencowe
I think that part of the assessment is, is this realistically safe, for me, and, and what makes it safe, or what makes it unsafe? I think an important place to start with all of this is really starting to build that muscle with realistically safe peers and people and spaces. So, you know, that it wouldn't be wise to just say to a mentee go out on the street, and the next person that walk walks past, try and connect with them; that would probably not be a very safe suggestion, because we have no sense of you know how that person is going to respond.

But if we've got a friend or a person, or an environment in which the likeliness is that it is realistically safe, in that, you know, someone is, has shown us that they, you know, have an interest in us or care about us in some way or in the environment, in the sense that the setting is going to invite an opportunity to connect, then I think we can have a little bit more of an understanding as to whether it's the right thing to push with.

I think it's also checking in with ourselves, physically, when we notice that anxiety, or that that shyness and … and speaking to it - getting a sense of why it's there, and what it's feeling from its point of view, which is quite a sort of a somatic approach (which is a therapeutic approach that really focuses in on the body). But the idea is that rather than trying to say, talk yourself out of it, or try to discount the feeling, to just say hello to it, and basically have a conversation with it to get a sense of, you know, what it is, and, and why it's there.

And maybe through doing that, we might hear the conversation that says to ourselves, oh, it's actually it's afraid, it's the fear part of me. It's afraid, because it feels like, you know, maybe people won't like me, or, you know, those other thoughts might come up. And then you can kind of have a conversation with that. Because ultimately, I think all of this is really about trusting your value and trusting your worth. And trusting that others will see that too.

Jemma Sbeg
You may realise you need help with this process, and that’s ok.
If the idea of going to a yoga class or asking friends to join you at an art class, or of reaching out to volunteer at a local club makes you feel physically sick. If it feels insurmountable, it might be worth reaching out for help to talk this through.
You can go to your GP who will refer you to local professionals, or you can contact ReachOut who have a heap of resources and support available.
Some simple techniques could help you take this step whilst feeling safe.
Charity and her mentor Dee also got to this place with their work.

Charity
Well, normally, I wouldn't put myself in an uncomfortable position. I'll just continue living inside my head inside the dark room, doing absolutely nothing, trying to figure out what I want to do, even though I really wanted to go swimming. But I never had the confidence or the courage to go into a swimming pool. And then I met with you that one time and I was like, oh, it's not that bad. So, I went into the pool and made myself uncomfortable. But now it's comfortable. I normally wouldn't jump into a lane where it was already occupied. And be like, aww I'm intruding their space, like that's not right. But then the more that I sat down and the more that I watched the regulars they just jump in and go for gold. And it's like, well if they can so can I. And so it did take me a little bit, but I'd still sit outside and watch and pay attention to what's going on and then I got the confidence to jump in the lane.

Deidre Anderson
I noticed down there you’ve built a real community. Everyone seems to know you in such a short period of time.

Charity
Oh yeah. I don't really yarn with very many people there, but there was a situation where there was young kids acting up in there, and it was like, whites versus blacks. And I was like, nah, that's not right. You’s just children go have fun, go have fun.  ‘Oh you’re so wise, so wise’, the lady that  was trying to sort the situation out. I was like , ‘Not really, it's just common sense’. But you know what I mean? But I could overhear, and I was just like, I gotta go over here real quick and sorted it out.

Deidre Anderson
That’s nice.

Charity
And there was a little boy, he was crying for ages. And I was like, can you see them having fun? Can you see the girls over there having fun? He was like yeah. And I was like, ‘how come they get to go have fun and you don't? Don't hang yourself up’. You know what I mean?

Jemma Sbeg
Dee started early helping Charity find a space to connect, that involved sport or exercise.
That’s because sport and being physical, in itself, is a huge boost for mental health and self-esteem, but also because it’s a great way to connect.
Whether it’s a sporting team, or just being at the gym or the pool regularly, you start to become part of something.
Reaching into where you feel joy, where you feel accepted and happy is a powerful way to build connection.
But passions don’t have to be so full bodied and playful, they can also be practical.
Here’s Dr Lisa Mundy again.

Lisa Mundy
Obviously, studying employment, or kind of a good kind of, you know, social spaces, with, you know, universities, a lot of again, with a COVID pandemic, a lot of university life has moved to online. And again, I think that really showed us the importance of, you know, that universities are not just about learning, but they are about that social connection and being able to connect with others as well. Practically, so you know, kind of capitalising on those opportunities as well.

Jemma Sbeg
I know that going to uni or TAFE or getting a different job might not sound like they fit into an episode about passion.
Even if education isn’t something you’re passionate about, it can be a way for us to find our passions.
Short courses, degrees and diplomas, they all offer up new choices in our lives, and with that, new ways to find joy - and places to meet new people.
And often the people we meet when we’re studying can become lifelong connections.
Because it’s a place where we can find people with shared interests and values.
Charity and her mentor Dee investigated the idea of education as a space to connect and build stronger relationships.

Deidre Anderson
What was your experience like at school?

Charity
I was a crowd follower and then the crowd I was following was like I need to fit in with somebody and then I lost really good friends that I had from primary school because I went this way.

Deidre Anderson
One of the reasons I ask you is that when you’ve been through what you’ve been through, the thought even doing any kind of study just triggers you. If you know why you’re there, and you know it’s a means to an end, it can be quite exciting.

Charity
Yeah, I’m more of a practical doer.

Deidre Anderson
Yeah. So, you like to, they call it tactile. So, like you like to physically learn

I didn’t know I was borderline dyslexic until I had my first year of uni and I was 28. So, I used to just stare and think, oh… Thank God there was sport, I would have been in all sorts of trouble. But you find a way, you find a way to learn your way and that’s what you’re not doing at the moment. You're trying to fit into a certain learning style whereas education now is what you need to learn.

Charity
That’s intriguing.

Jemma Sbeg
Let’s check in and see how Holly’s doing with her weekend.

Holly
I am at the yoga retreat; I am talking a bit quietly because we’re not really using our phones. It’s going well, it’s really good, we just had a group discussion tonight after dinner about making friends as adults and obviously it’s really timely for me and everyone was sharing experiences of the awkwardness and the uncomfortable nature of reaching out to people and forming connections. It was really beautiful, I think. It made me realise we all feel the same and it’s not just in your 20’s it’s so many stages of life where you go through different seasons and things change and you have to to reach out to new people or you want to, and it’s the same feeling every single time so, yeah, that was really interesting.

Jemma Sbeg
This builds on something we heard in the last episode.
Here’s Professor Ian Hickie, Co-Director of the University of Sydney’s Brain and Mind Centre.

Ian Hickie
So one of the best antidotes to this whole potentially vicious circle between a decline in social cohesion and then reinforcement, just single identities and separation of everyone into single (single) cell units, if you like, is actually to do the opposite what has historically done - go join, go participate, go join your local surf club, go join your local footy club, go join a local choir, go join and participate where there are different generations with people from different backgrounds. There's an experience in that.

Jemma Sbeg
It’s just a couple of weeks after their first catch up, when Tim and his mentor Sean bonded over drag, and Tim is already hitting the goals they set together.

Tim
Last week I went out with a bunch of friends, and we just (like) had a dinner, and they made a WhatsApp group and it’s called the gay club.

Sean Szeps
Yes, it is.

Tim
Even though it’s just us guys - the gays and the girls. There’s a few straight people, there’s a few straight men…

Sean Szeps
We will allow it, we will allow it.

Tim
… there’s a few straight men… but they’re cool with straight men, there are cool straight men you know.

Sean Szeps
Yeah, absolutely, allies! We love them.

Tim
Because of our talk, I said to them, ok guys, this Thursday ‘who wants to go to Baby Drag, watch Baby Drag’? So tomorrow we’re locked in to go watch Baby Drag.

Sean Szeps
Shut Up?!!

Tim
Yeah.

Sean Szeps
You followed through babe – woo hoo (cheers). So who’s going? The WhatsApp group or at least some of them?

Tim
Yeah, so I think pretty much everyone that’s in the group's coming. So this will be their first experience with it as well. I don’t think they’ve had much experience with drag and I definitely haven’t had any in Melbourne, so it will be really fun.

Sean Szeps
Oh, that's so great! I think… I mean so many things are good here.
One. You went out twice last week. So in terms of feeling lonely, I think… massive pat on the shoulder, you went out one time more than I went out. Two. You’ve set the goal that we talked about, about finding the drag place and then going, which is amazing. But then three, and I don’t know if this is purposeful a baby drag venue which makes me think you might be up on stage one day.

Tim
Yeah, maybe. Hopefully.

Sean Szeps
Yeah maybe, it doesn’t have to happen immediately. But like… hey this is huge.
How are you feeling about the baby drag event, are you excited? Are their nerves or are you proud you got this far?

Tim
I’m excited, nervous at the same time. Like, I don’t know what to expect and I guess, it’s a good thing like I am not trying to set any expectations for myself.

Sean Szeps
Okay. This is already massive progress - which is fantastic! Also, I think the biggest win is that you suggested it. Like most people don’t even get that far. So The fact you did and they said yes is a cherry on the ice cream sundae. But the fact like you were like ‘hey who wants to come to me?’, to me, is already the prize itself, because I do know now, and sometimes that’s the hardest part, isn’t it - just asking?

Tim
100%.

Holly
So, I am home from the yoga retreat now. I had the most amazing time. I think, I really came away from (it) with (the) a deeper understanding and probably appreciation of the fact that meeting and connecting with people that share similar interests and values to you, really opens up an amazing space for connection.

I think that while I didn't make any friends per se…and I think there’s a little bit of shame for me around that. I think in the past I would have been devastated or seen it as a failure that I didn’t make friends, but I think the realisation that connection with likeminded people for however long it is can be just as powerful.

I think it really reinforced to me that connection is just as important as friendship. Like these aren’t people that I would go and see again but for the weekend it was a beautiful experience and I’m so grateful for it. So yeah, it was really powerful and it’s challenging me to want to do yoga more often to be surrounded by similar kinds of people.

Jemma Sbeg
Charity and Dee have made some steps since they spoke about study and education as a way of building connection.
But they’re also conscious of not rushing it, of allowing the space to make the right choices based on that value work they did right at the start.

Deidre Anderson
You're still at that exploration phase and you’re learning how to embed those values into your decision making and into your life. So don't be too hard. It does look like a squiggly thing on the page, but…

Charity
It’s good but, it’s there, I can see it, I can see it. It’s like a light at the end of the tunnel. I’ve just got to stay focussed without the distractions.

Deidre Anderson
And one of the things that you were terrified of even considering was going and studying. Can you tell us a bit about what you've been doing to build your confidence to the point where now you've enrolled in a course? What did you do?

Charity
I've been showing up. Basically, yeah, just showing up. Going into - sitting in a Community Services Cert 4 class. It's kind of annoying, a little bit, because I'm not getting assessed. It's not as hard as what I remember studying to be. And so, I want to jump in the deep end. But also, I know, walking up from the shallow end to the deep end is probably better than jumping in straight, where I can't touch and then getting exhausted.

Drag Queen
Are we ready for another for another show?

Drag Queen 2
No, I wasn’t. I was getting a drink, you dog!

Jemma Sbeg
Tim’s flown to Sydney so he and Sean can have a night at a drag show together.

Sean Szeps
So, we’re currently at Drag and Dine at the Imperial which is in Erskineville in Sydney. We watched one, two, three, four, five, six drag performances? I don’t know. And then you watched me dance on stage.

Tim
Yeah. You did the splits.

Sean Szeps
I did the splits.

Tim
You did some kicks.

Sean Szeps
I did some kicks.

Tim
…and some other people won.

Sean Szeps
And everyone else won even though I delivered at my full potential. I’m not angry, I’m not upset. Are you having fun?

Tim
You’re just bitter. I think this is what I was talking about earlier. Sort of what I live for, this is really intimate, we're able to be together, have a chat, sit down and just really converse and know each other better.

Sean Szeps
I think it’s wonderful. I didn’t know that I picked this place perfectly but the three of us at the table, we get to chat, we get to get intimate, have like private conversations and then watch a drag show and have a lot of fun, get a little tipsy. It's perfect.

It’s so special, isn’t it?
It’s like the very best of what clowning provides which is you can’t look away then it adds all these technical aspects - the illusion of womanhood and the perfectionism of a trained dancer, and actor, like you are getting all of those elements. And so to watch all of that happen, you cannot stop looking, it's so exciting! Its like… and the fact Tim and I both love it so much, (is) just bonds us even more. We are just constantly gabbing which is great.

Tim
100%. Like its… for me, it’s weird watching drag sometimes like having done drag myself. Sometimes you can look at it analytically, like you know... would I have done my make up like this? Would I have done that move? Would I have chosen this song? And (you know) it’s all so personal and everything but it’s so good being able to see especially tonight, something you really can’t get anywhere else. So it’s really special.

Jemma Sbeg
In our next episode we’ll be diving into the impacts and misconceptions around technology.
Is it the reason we’re feeling more lonely or is it the thing that can help us?

Aleks
Part of me is pretty cynical about the whole process, because everyone is doing this on their phone, presumably, by themselves, including me.

Tim
It’s crazy to think that we could go from strangers as playing a game and then next we're helping each other, we’re supporting each other.

Holly
And you know, obviously, it's a highlight reel. So, everyone's posting their best memories. But yeah, I just, I found that really hard.

Ian Hickie 
So, one of the great scare campaigns going on at the moment in the media, is that kid's brains are being fundamentally rewired for life, in a bad way, by the use of phones. I think the evidence for this is practically nil.

Jemma Sbeg
If this show has raised any issues for you, remember there are always places to turn, such as Lifeline on 13 11 14; beyondblue.org.au and reachout.com, which offers dedicated support for young people.
For more information and tips to help you if you’re feeling lonely, visit wearelonely.com.au.
We are Lonely is produced as part of Medibank’s ten year commitment to addressing loneliness.
I am Jemma Sbeg.
This show was produced and edited by Liz Keen and Simon Portus from Headline Productions.
Music is by Kenneth Lample.
Fact checking is by Jess Choong and our team psychologist is Alison Howarth.
Our junior Producer is Monika Vidugiryte.
Our team from Medibank include Karen Oldaker, Nigel Davis and Demi Michael.
Project and Production Management is by Robert Ranieri and Nick Randall from Ranieri and Co.